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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Yeah, I know, you just go hit a rock when you are having problems, and get a new transmission. :)
Ah...that's his secret! :D
 
"I have no idea how that 2 × 4 got wedged between the seat and the gas pedal!"
 
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Discussion starter · #23 ·
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ATF+4 transmission fluids don't wear out and the system is pretty much closed loop. They can get a little dirty, and more so, if something is wrong. The additive package in the fluid can deplete and hence the need for replenishment under severe duty conditions.
The fact that many transmissions have their filter buried inside them, indicates filters don't really need to be changed. The 8 and 9 speed ZF designed transmissions, used in the Jeep Wrangler and Pacifica, have lifetime fluid I believe.
ATF+4 was a great improvement over ATF+3 as far as longevity is concerned.
From: Chrysler automatic transmission fluids: 7176, ATF+3, ATF+4
ATF+3 is a friction-modified, high-quality transmission fluid similar to the current fluid in most respects; but it wears out more quickly and has less desirable cold viscosity (to simplify: is too thick when cold). ATF+3 can be approximated by Dexron plus an additive but this does not save much money and is not as desirable as using the correct fluid to begin with.
The big differences between ATF+3 and ATF+4 is that ATF+4 uses a synthetic (Group III) base oil and a Lubrizol VI improver in the additive package..
Lubrizol developed a new shear-stable viscosity index (VI) improver
Developing ATF+4 was to create a fluid that would match the performance characteristics of the current fluid (Type 7176D), but would retain those characteristics for at least 100,000 miles. The paper specifically notes that the anti-shudder properties of ATF+3 are usually degraded enough by 30,000 miles to cause noticeable shudder.
 
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The junkyard A604 transmission I pulled apart this weekend had nasty, dirty fluid, and saturated magnet on the pan. The clutches look brand new inside.
Based on this single data point, you could trash many fills worth of fluid and still have a good transmission.
LEVY, Special Edy is singing your song. Best you give him a "Like". :)
 
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Discussion starter · #26 · (Edited)
ATF+4 transmission fluids don't wear out and the system is pretty much closed loop. They can get a little dirty, and more so, if something is wrong. The additive package in the fluid can deplete and hence the need for replenishment under severe duty conditions.
The fact that many transmissions have their filter buried inside them, indicates filters don't really need to be changed. The 8 and 9 speed ZF designed transmissions, used in the Jeep Wrangler and Pacifica, have lifetime fluid I believe.
ATF+4 was a great improvement over ATF+3 as far as longevity is concerned.
From: Chrysler automatic transmission fluids: 7176, ATF+3, ATF+4

The big differences between ATF+3 and ATF+4 is that ATF+4 uses a synthetic (Group III) base oil and a Lubrizol VI improver in the additive package..
According to this thread at BITOG, ATF can shear.

ATF Degradation

I don't think heat should ever be a problem for ATF in the 62TE - at least in the vans. I tried hard to get the ATF up to 180 - not beating on it or anything - but I was hard-pressed to surpass 150F. I use AppCar DiagFCA. It's definitely the heat of summer around here and maybe it will approach 180 in the summer. My turbo Toyota runs around 170 - 180 after about 1/2 hour on the highway and I have a dedicated cooler. If I'm boosting a lot at low speeds, I've seen it approach 200.

As an aside, I picked up Fusion OBD and the enhanced pids pack. Haven't spent long with it, but it looks like it's going to blow Torque Pro away. After installing, the app scanned the computer and appeared to find over 5000 pids. In short order I had ATF temp displaying. I'm going to cross reference with AppCar to see how close they are. AppCar will be the benchmark as I trust it - not 100% sure why - but I do. Haha.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
I know. And I bet a lot of others have experienced the same. I wonder to what degree climate plays a role, if any. I obviously have no statistical data on that, but I wonder if warmer/dryer climates contribute to less transmission fluid degradation. I can see climates like ours (Canada/Northern USA etc) with wild annual temperature fluctuations causing degradation of the fluid by condensation. Again, I have no data and am probably overthinking this. I've gotta get a life. Or, should have studied engineering or something.
My data is ..EVERY..transmission in my Chrysler, Dodge and Volkswagon minivan collection has had issues. Fluid changed at 60k intervals with standard commute driving. Perhaps it is the New England climate. Levy must be driving Toyotas; definitely not a Mopar/FIAT or whatever the company is this week.
 
Discussion starter · #30 ·
My data is ..EVERY..transmission in my Chrysler, Dodge and Volkswagon minivan collection has had issues. Fluid changed at 60k intervals with standard commute driving. Perhaps it is the New England climate. Levy must be driving Toyotas; definitely not a Mopar/FIAT or whatever the company is this week.
You changed the fluid at 60000 and still had problems in all those vehicles? We figured out that when Levy starts to have transmission problems he just drives onto big rocks, then installs a new transmission. Or, he just drives onto rocks because he suspects a transmission failure is impending.
 
My data is ..EVERY..transmission in my Chrysler, Dodge and Volkswagon minivan collection has had issues. Fluid changed at 60k intervals with standard commute driving. Perhaps it is the New England climate. Levy must be driving Toyotas; definitely not a Mopar/FIAT or whatever the company is this week.
My original Transmission lasted 300,000 miles. It was rebuilt, died less than a mile after being rebuilt by an inept shop. The shop put in another remanufactured transmission that lasted 135,000 miles. I had the cover off my reman once, they cracked the valve body and didnt have to filter plugged in(it was just sitting in the pan), that along with the fact that they destroyed the first one, Im surprised it lasted 135,000 miles...
Mine is a 1997 as well, they started updating things in 1998, I have an "early" transmission.
 
My data is ..EVERY..transmission in my Chrysler, Dodge and Volkswagon minivan collection has had issues. Fluid changed at 60k intervals with standard commute driving. Perhaps it is the New England climate. Levy must be driving Toyotas; definitely not a Mopar/FIAT or whatever the company is this week.
My data is...

You keep changing ATF and you'll keep having problems.

That's my point. Those who change ATF are the ones who have transmission problems.

Why change ATF every 60K?
 
My data is...

You keep changing ATF and you'll keep having problems.

That's my point. Those who change ATF are the ones who have transmission problems.

Why change ATF every 60K?
This is how my employer does it. I drive a long wheelbase Chevy 3500 Express, I'm a couple hundred lbs shy of 10,000 lbs going over scales with all my forklift parts and tools in the back.
We only do oil changes, they just buy us a new van and trade in the old one at 150,000 miles.
I beat the **** out of this 375hp 6.0L V8 and 6L80 transmission, I go through two sets of tires a year.
 
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Discussion starter · #34 ·
My original Transmission lasted 300,000 miles. It was rebuilt, died less than a mile after being rebuilt by an inept shop. The shop put in another remanufactured transmission that lasted 135,000 miles. I had the cover off my reman once, they cracked the valve body and didnt have to filter plugged in(it was just sitting in the pan), that along with the fact that they destroyed the first one, Im surprised it lasted 135,000 miles...
Mine is a 1997 as well, they started updating things in 1998, I have an "early" transmission.
Wow, what an experience. I would have lost my mind and gone ninja on those dudes. But, 300000 miles on the original trans is great.
 
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