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Don't miss them. I'll drive a CUV if I want something short. If you're going to commit to a van you want the third row and cargo room.
 

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Levi,
I’ll make you a deal. If you explain were you came up with this regarding owners of shorties.

“””...maybe just the ones who own one (they have no choice but like them).

I’ll tell you were in the world I came up with my info.
But seriously I watched a local news story a while back. They had actual sales stats. They also had some owners explaining why they bought a Chrysler mini-van at first and why their next vehicle was a SUV. The sales stats along with a few actual owner statements were included. I believe it was a Chrysler mini van anniversary story a while back.

According to the story the sales stats came directly from the auto manufacture. They had Chrysler stats going back to gen-one and I remember the stats not only broke down SWB and LWB sales but also broke down some other stats including gen-3 sales stats showing the numbers for 3-door and 4-door versions.

I think the reason for the break down was because the owners they interviewed were asked why they bought a Chrysler mini van at first and why the next time they went for an SUV. Many answers were not due to “ugliness” but the early adapters (G1 G2 part of G3 vans) mentioned a lack of a left rear passenger door. Many of the later adopters mentioned the lack of rear passenger windows being able to roll down.

According to the story it wasn’t that they traded their shorties for SUVs. As it came time to upgrade for a new vehicle many shorty owners opted for a SUV. More LWB owners went for a new LWB.

As to what I see on the road – It’s pretty obvious and self explanatory.

I know my answer may not convince you Levi. I know my answer is not full proof. But since I tried – please explain to me how you came up with

“””Most people doesn't like shorties, maybe just the ones who own one (they have no choice but like them).”””

Can you provide any more info please? Really I just like to know what stats you have for the last sentence regarding owners of shorties.

“””they have no choice but like them”””

Oh yeah, almost forgot.
Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and best wishes and good health for the New Year.
Ivan Caravan
Proud owner of Chrysler Shorty "twice"
 

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Well, I'll add in here the reason for a minivan over an SUV - sliding doors and flat floors. You get the best interior cargo room for a passenger vehicle with seats removed. With kids, the sliding doors are the way to go so the kids aren't door-dinging everyone in parking lots when they get out. With babies in carriers, you often can't get them in/out of the car with regular doors because people park too close to you in parking lots. BTDT, and so thankful for sliding doors!

Edit: We finally got a van when we found out we were having a 3rd child. Two carseats fit in the back of our 2001 Grand Prix, but not 3! Double stroller fit in the trunk just fine. Then we went back down to 2 kids :cry:. Van didn't have working A/C so used the Grand Prix a lot. We got tired of the cramped legroom and found out we were having another baby, so traded for the Dodge Magnum, which COULD fit 3 seats across the back and was a bigger car. Then got another van (2011 DGC Crew) a couple years later, and sold the Magnum (dealers were low-balling us on trade-in value even though it was an R/T, so fixed it up and got twice what dealers offered). DGC got totalled, so bought a 2011 Toyota Sienna because it was safer, better equipped and could seat 6 in the back instead of 5 with the jump seat.

Happy Holidays everyone!!
 

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I bought a T&C when we were expecting our daughter. Babies travel heavy, just her stroller alone fills the trunk in my wife's Journey. The remote sliding doors are nice when carrying a baby in a car seat basket. With the low floor my daughter can climb up into the van and her car seat all by herself. I'll ride it until it's around the 10-12 year mark. By then my daughter and second child will be bigger, so no need for the cargo and sliding doors. I miss my truck and am excitied to read about the upcoming Grand Wagoneer and rumoured BOF new Durango. So I'll most likely go the SUV route...
 

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People,

I do own a couple of minivans, I do have personal reasons.

I still find them ugly. There are a lot of prople eho like minivans for whatever reasons.

This thread is about shorties, not SUV's.

When I bought my first minivan, many people asked to be careful and not buy a SWB. Some of them bought their SWB because they didn't knew there were two options.

People here talks like if everybody owns just one vehocle. There are many who own two or more, so if needed to carry plywood, best to use the appropriate vehicle for the task.

If you need to pick up your kids from school, a SUV would be the best option, ask them.
 

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If you need to pick up your kids from school, a SUV would be the best option, ask them.
why though?

31,386 base price for a 2019 chrysler pacifica vs 75,195 for a 2019 cadillac escalade, 50,600 for a gmc yukon

there's smaller and cheaper "suvs" out there, but they're not suvs, they're glorified crossovers

i see really no use for those vehicles besides a larger engine and a social statement
 

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2020 Honda Odyssey: An antidote to crossover fever
 

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The minivan is just as much a sport utility vehicle (SUV) as a SUV is. They look as good, or better, as well, certainly better looking than a light truck.

The term "van" is the downer, like calling it a "bus". The SWB van is as functional as the LWB van 90% of the time for most people. How many times does one use the roof racks or the extra cargo area.

There is a niche market for the shorter minivan, especially for those that want the function and safety of sliding doors. For the LWB minivan, stow and go is a big driver..
 

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My family had a 4'th gen caravan sport with the LWB and we now have a 5'th gen, and as a kid I noticed that some other vans like ours looked smaller-specifically the rear windows compared to ours. We did lots of travelling with our 4'th gen, we went all the way to mexico (from Canada) and back, and the amount of stuff we had in the back along with 5 people and a roof carrier we had very little room. Some friends of ours had a 4'th gen with the SWB, and when I sat in the rear I felt really crammed, and I was like 8 at the time. Since I was the smallest I always sat in the 3'd row single seat, which the LWB space in the rear was okay, and by okay I mean I could remove my shoes and place them in front of my feet and have space. But in the SWB there wasn't enough space for that, not to mention the space between the 3'd row and the gate is very limited. For my case, I do not miss the SWB and I am glad my family only got the LWB versions, for our family travels we really needed that extra space, and it was our only vehicle so any work we did (like replacing the fence) everything was hauled by the van.
Now that I've grown up now I get to drive the van, I took 4 of my friends on a week camping trip with tons of stuff and again, not much space left over.

Overall, I am happy that dodge and Chrysler made these vans, and as the trend goes that they plan to replace the vans with a crossover just makes me sad, and in fact, if I was to choose between a SWB caravan or a crossover, I will choose the caravan!
 

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Death of the minivan? As Americans buy more SUVs, is the minivan headed for the junkyard?

A SWB minivan, with a Thule ski box, can be an excellent ski-mobile.
From your link:

"Minivans have always had the stigma of the soccer mom image even though they’re incredibly practical," said Michelle Krebs, analyst at car-buying site Autotrader.
I wonder why:

 

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The long and the short of it is that we Americans gave Canadians a choice of short or long wheelbase vans, which is a good thing. Anyway, and as I said many years ago in this forum, it is time for us to meet at the Friendship bridge and fight it out!
 

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Did some work on the e-brake. When removing the kick panel, I came across little white packets of insulation (powder)?? They were still there when I traded it. I don't think they were insulation. :)
Should've sold that "insulation" to make up a few payments on the new one. :p

I don't get all the fuss about SUVs. I've always thought vans were better. Back when the term SUV started being thrown around (early 90s, the release of the Explorer), I didn't know what SUV stood for. Being young, I thought it meant Screwed-Up Van. Today, even though I know what it's supposed to mean, I still refer to them as such.
 

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what's really funny is, the 1998 mercury mountaineer that i have has maybe 3/4ths at most the interior space of my van, despite being about the same size on the outside

rear leg room is terrible and the seats only fold onto themselves, instead of come out or fold down, leaving almost half the height for storage space in the vehicle compared to my van

also, the ground clearance differences aren't impressive, the only benefit it has is it's engine and AWD which was an option on these vans anyway for some reason

no point in AWD to me unless you have locking differentials

when you try to make a vehicle that can do everything, it doesn't do anything well, it just does everything mediocre

i feel the same way about the big interest in crossovers today
 

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No locking differentials in AWD doesn't make it bad. I have a 2004 AWD Limited and I love the versatility. It's an SUV with sliding doors, and I can remove all of the rear seats. It also has the big receiver hitch for towing, and the AWD allows me to back up my inclined driveway in the snow without sliding sideways. I can tie down long lumber/materials on the roof rack. If our other van is out of commission for some reason (maintenance, accident) the seats can go back in for back-up family hauling duty. About the only thing I don't have is ability to easily switch to 2wd - - it can be done by disconnecting the driveshaft at the PTU and rear axle shafts, but no traction control. It fits all of my needs well. That is really the purpose of the shorty van too, to fit someone's needs perfectly. Just enough, but not too much, van for their needs. :)
 

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From my understanding the Dodge Journey was really meant to be the replacement for the SWB Caravan/T&C. By 2007-08 most manufacturers had either only made one wheelbase length (Toyota, Honda, Nissan) or had gone to just one length (Ford, Mercury). GM still did but left the minivan segment after 2007 (though some were titled as 2008s).

Kia went different because they actually added a SWB model with the 2006 redesign, and while it couldn't be equipped as well as the LWB, it had a nice list of features.

For me, if I get a van I will go with LWB, either because if I get a 5th gen that's all that was offered, or if I go 4th gen, the features I want only come in LWB (such as stow N go). Growing up, we started with a SWB and it was just fine, the rest were LWB. By the 4th gen I almost can't tell a SWB from a LWB sometimes, they had grown so much from the 1st gens. IIRC correctly a SWB 3rd/4th gen was within inches of a LWB 1st/2nd gen in wheelbase.
 

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Growing up, we started with a SWB and it was just fine, the rest were LWB. By the 4th gen I almost can't tell a SWB from a LWB sometimes, they had grown so much from the 1st gens. IIRC correctly a SWB 3rd/4th gen was within inches of a LWB 1st/2nd gen in wheelbase.
In the generations of the Caravan/Voyager, I only owned 1 SWB. The only advantage was being able to park in a small car sized space. Otherwise, the roof rack was used all too often as there wasn't really any cargo space in the back. The rear seat nearly touched the rear hatch.

After watching a few YT vids of those SWB Caravans with the rear collision accidents and the troubling hatch popping open, for the safety of the kids, I moved on to a LWB. That little extra cargo space and distance of the rear seat away from the rear glass offered just a better safety cushion on rear end hits.

In a SWB, the rear accident would not only toss the glass into the rear passenger's heads, it would push the seat forward trapping their legs between the rows of seats.

In this LWB, the rear seat is untouched.

58300
 

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We still have our base 1996 Voyager 2.4L shortie bought new (newspaper special). My wife wanted a newer 2002 T&C 3.8L w/ everything (AWD, tow, power everything - mixed blessing) before her father visited from overseas and only $5500 in 2008, so grabbed that. Several people have left notes or stopped me when I am outside, saying "you don't need 2 minivans, sell it to me". One note was begging for a free car. I use the shortie more like a pickup. I removed the 3rd row mainly so I can haul my bike in the back, but also great for stopping at Home Depot on the way home. I had a pickup (1982 S-10 longbed), but found it cramped in the cabin and not fun hauling with stuff unprotected from rain and theft in the back, plus it collected tree debris. Not sure why people love pickups. I can haul more volume in the minivan w/ all seats out and it is protected. So far, I have hauled a piano, 6 cyl engine w/ transmission, 5 cyl diesel engine, sand & gravel, knee milling machine, 4x8 plywood and drywall (sits flat, can't quite close the rear hatch so rope it). The rear seats roll out easily. Of course I first line the floor w/ plastic (for leaks) then cardboard or plywood. Amazing how many gomers can't figure that out. One guy on a M-B forum posted that he borrowed his girlfriend's CUV to haul a used diesel engine and wondered how to clean the carpet of oil gunk on the carpets (she was mad). When I hauled sand in the pickup, I lined the bed w/ plastic first, so I could pull it up and get all the sand out, plus carpet below if gravel to not scratch the paint. Most pickup owners are less-smart.

If I tire of the shortie, CA will buy it for $1000 ($1500 if lower income), to supposedly mitigate pollution by retiring older vehicles. BTW, I recall that in the last days of the Chrysler minivan (~2005), they sold an upscale shortie, marketing it to older couples. That was before the CUV and basically the same concept. Indeed, that is what most CUV's are, other than their boxier look and missing the useful sliding door.
 

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In the generations of the Caravan/Voyager, I only owned 1 SWB. The only advantage was being able to park in a small car sized space. Otherwise, the roof rack was used all too often as there wasn't really any cargo space in the back. The rear seat nearly touched the rear hatch.

After watching a few YT vids of those SWB Caravans with the rear collision accidents and the troubling hatch popping open, for the safety of the kids, I moved on to a LWB. That little extra cargo space and distance of the rear seat away from the rear glass offered just a better safety cushion on rear end hits.

In a SWB, the rear accident would not only toss the glass into the rear passenger's heads, it would push the seat forward trapping their legs between the rows of seats.

In this LWB, the rear seat is untouched.
We never really sat in the 3rd row of most of our vans growing up. Usually it had a cover over it and was used as a seat for the dog. On our 93 shorty we usually had the seat pushed forward which made pretty good cargo room. On the 98 GC that replaced it there was a lot more room in the back. I think I can only remember one time where we had enough passengers to have anyone sit in the very back.

My biggest thing I didn't care for on the SWB is how you couldn't get rear HVAC on those. Our 93 shorty didn't have the dark window glass and it took a long time to get cooled down with just the air up front. the 98 would get very cold in the back but maybe the darker glass helped. So I would want a LWB for that reason, although I know some would prefer not to have the potential issues with the lines, etc.

I remember hearing that about the liftgates popping open. Although the van in the picture appears to be a SWB model.

We still have our base 1996 Voyager 2.4L shortie bought new (newspaper special). My wife wanted a newer 2002 T&C 3.8L w/ everything (AWD, tow, power everything - mixed blessing) before her father visited from overseas and only $5500 in 2008, so grabbed that. Several people have left notes or stopped me when I am outside, saying "you don't need 2 minivans, sell it to me". One note was begging for a free car. I use the shortie more like a pickup. I removed the 3rd row mainly so I can haul my bike in the back, but also great for stopping at Home Depot on the way home. I had a pickup (1982 S-10 longbed), but found it cramped in the cabin and not fun hauling with stuff unprotected from rain and theft in the back, plus it collected tree debris. Not sure why people love pickups. I can haul more volume in the minivan w/ all seats out and it is protected. So far, I have hauled a piano, 6 cyl engine w/ transmission, 5 cyl diesel engine, sand & gravel, knee milling machine, 4x8 plywood and drywall (sits flat, can't quite close the rear hatch so rope it). The rear seats roll out easily. Of course I first line the floor w/ plastic (for leaks) then cardboard or plywood. Amazing how many gomers can't figure that out. One guy on a M-B forum posted that he borrowed his girlfriend's CUV to haul a used diesel engine and wondered how to clean the carpet of oil gunk on the carpets (she was mad). When I hauled sand in the pickup, I lined the bed w/ plastic first, so I could pull it up and get all the sand out, plus carpet below if gravel to not scratch the paint. Most pickup owners are less-smart.

If I tire of the shortie, CA will buy it for $1000 ($1500 if lower income), to supposedly mitigate pollution by retiring older vehicles. BTW, I recall that in the last days of the Chrysler minivan (~2005), they sold an upscale shortie, marketing it to older couples. That was before the CUV and basically the same concept. Indeed, that is what most CUV's are, other than their boxier look and missing the useful sliding door.
Yeah, I think I'd rather have a van than a truck for hauling stuff inside, etc. Trucks are so overpriced, just because so many people want one as a "status" symbol. Especially the fancy crew cab models. And you can get a van that is much more spacious inside as you mention, and also with a lot more goodies for way less than a pickup. Since I don't do offroading or anything like that I see no need for a truck. A van would meet my needs just fine.
 
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