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... remaining and the dampener was just barely on the end of the crank nub and bolt. I got a new dampener and it slides freely all the way up to the shoulder on the nub. So basically I either need to replace the crank or the engine, unless there's some other way I could manage to get a tight enough fit that it wouldn't spin on the shaft. Any ideas?
There is a company called Belzona and they make some serious composite materials, adhesives and sealants.
I would replace the seal and then get some sort of super Belzona 'glue' and glue that sucker on there and then install a new bolt with Loctite red permanent thread locker.

You said it was running good up to that point, so do a 'permanent pulley installation and drive it till it either gets, God forbid, creamed in an accident, rusts away beyond repair, or has a catastrophic engine failure . THEN, at that point, I'd consider looking at replacing the engine.

It sounds like you take care of your vehicle and are proud of being the original owner. This is not going to make your van a hunk o junk, it is just 'special' now. It'll live on a good useful life with a slight handicap /\...

Alternatively, perhaps you could strike a few dimples into both the shaft surface and the pulley bore with a cold punch. That may give you the slight interference fit you are looking for. [if I could get that to work, I'd locktite the bolt in with the new orange loctite that is 3x stronger than medium but still able to be removed with handtools without heating]
 

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Not to encourage redneck reconditioning... but since the crank has been stripped down there is a way you can get it to lock in and still be able to remove it when you need to.

Cut up a soda or beer can and make a sleeve to wrap around the crank. Be careful to get the ends as close as possible without overlapping, otherwise it will kick out to one side. You may have to do a couple layers. When you bolt it down it should take up the slack.
 

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What are you senile or something? You can't use the disparaging term 'redneck' anymore than you can have a lawn jockey ( of any painted complexion ) in front of the house or even visit Columbus Ohio these days. They should remove all those racist presidents from our currency and put Floyd on the $20. Wasn't that what brought this whole thing to boil was that Geo supposedly had a bad twenty and thing went South from there?

Can I even reference the term "went South from there"???

No, myself, I wouldn't usually recommend any Canadian engineering either, but in this case it seems warranted.

I doubt there is going to be clearance for a strip of tin foil let alone a sliver of beer can.

I think 'bitch it up' with a Stillson plumbers pipe wrench, clean it real good with some gasoline followed by some alcohol (both should evaporate from the crankcase / oil when at operating temperature) point is get it all VERY degreased clean dry, and then butter it up with some JB weld. Set it home with a new bolt and loctite that bolt in place.

Short of a timing chain failing or the oil seal, you may never need to remove it. AND if you did, the puller mechanism should be able to overcome that epoxy.

If you don't like Canadian engineering, then try a Scandinavian solution... We don't care.
 

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What are you senile or something? You can't use the disparaging term 'redneck' anymore than you can have a lawn jockey ( of any painted complexion ) in front of the house or even visit Columbus Ohio these days.
Well, I couldn't use the term my boss uses. I'm too pale for that. :p
 

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JB Weld will not work. Saw a keyed crank pulley in the junkyard wobble on the engine, took it off and there was JB Weld under it; both the pulley and crank were junk. That would normally be the verdict in this case.

I have also read of someone on here years ago, finding that their pulley/balancer was loose. They took it off, cleaned everything up, and cut some strips of aluminum can (maybe feeler gauge steel would work?) and made a shim for it. Bolted it back up and it worked, and never read of it failing. So it can work, and be "special". :p That's about all you can do at this point to save the engine.
 
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Does this van have a decoupler pulley on the alternator? or has it seized long ago or was replaced with a plain one?

If the pulley is still loose when slid on the shaft all the way, but otherwise the shaft is intact, shimming it would be the proper way to fix. Shim stock is available down to .001" - find the right thickness and you're done.

Grinding a keyway or drilling a pin hole is riskier, but works.

The worst method is to tack weld the pulley onto the crank - will need grinder to remove next time. (Don't ask, seen this done)

Replacing the engine for this problem is like using a 10lb sledge hammer to kill a cockroach...
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Does this van have a decoupler pulley on the alternator? or has it seized long ago or was replaced with a plain one?

If the pulley is still loose when slid on the shaft all the way, but otherwise the shaft is intact, shimming it would be the proper way to fix. Shim stock is available down to .001" - find the right thickness and you're done.

Grinding a keyway or drilling a pin hole is riskier, but works.

The worst method is to tack weld the pulley onto the crank - will need grinder to remove next time. (Don't ask, seen this done)

Replacing the engine for this problem is like using a 10lb sledge hammer to kill a cockroach...
I'm considering 2 options, leaning toward the 2nd.
Option 1: using some shim stock if I can find some that will fit. It's a fairly close fit, worn the way it is, so I might not be able to use it. My concern is also that the shim stock will want to bunch up as the balancer is pressed on and so it won't fit squarely against the shoulder, hence wobble and throw belt or cause excessive belt wear. Also, because it is a friction fit, it would have to be quite stout a fit in order to be able to torque the bolt without the balancer rotating on the shaft. That's the main reason I didn't consider the JB weld option more than a minute or so.

Option 2: pinning the crank. I think this is the only realistic way to go, only because I don't think I have enough clearance to get shim stock to work. I have a neighbor who is a machine builder and will make me a jig and some pins as a "gov't job" in his machine shop. With that I can get a couple of holes drilled with precision, pin the balancer in place, and then follow up with some Loctite on a new bolt.

I'm more than willing to entertain any/all other advice/options.
A sincere thank you to everyone who has responded to my post for help!

I'll follow up with some pics should I have any success.
 

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I would try shimming it before making a pin. If it doesn't work, you can try pinning it, but you can't go back to shimming it once you've notched the crank. Getting a shim on crooked is also more easily fixed than a crooked notch.

It'd be best to cut the shim and put it in the hole on the pulley rather than try to put the pulley on over the shim when it's on the crank. Less chance of going on crooked. If a soda can makes too thick of a shim, I'd try some feeler gauge like Road Ripper suggested.
 

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r to be able to torque the bolt without the balancer rotating on the shaft. That's the main reason I didn't consider the JB weld option more than a minute or so.

\

I'm more than willing to entertain any/all other advice/options.
A sincere thank you to everyone who has responded to my post for help!

I'll follow up with some pics should I have any success.
You don't hold the balancer when torquing the bolt.
I'd remove the torque converter dust cover and hold the crankshaft at the flex plate.

And so what if the uncured composite adhesive rotates a little.

How about the suggestion to mar the mating shaft and balance pulley bore to provide friction?

I thought about pinning the assembly. My hesitation would be that the hardness of the shaft is presumed harder than the cast pulley core. And, you will be trying to machine the joint inside a depression. I just don't know how I would ensure that I got some 'meat' into the shaft.

Atoman suggested NOT welding, but the more I think about that, all it would take is the slightest little TIG tack. and that should be easily enough removable with a dremel or die grinder assuming the pulley ever need to come off.

The reason there is no woodruff key is because it really only need to be strong enough to turn a few accessories...

I still think I would try to deform it a little bit with a chisel or something and then press fit it on.
 

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Option 2: pinning the crank. I think this is the only realistic way to go, only because I don't think I have enough clearance to get shim stock to work. I have a neighbor who is a machine builder and will make me a jig and some pins as a "gov't job" in his machine shop. With that I can get a couple of holes drilled with precision, pin the balancer in place, and then follow up with some Loctite on a new bolt.

I'm more than willing to entertain any/all other advice/options.
A sincere thank you to everyone who has responded to my post for help!

I'll follow up with some pics should I have any success.
Shimming will throw your pulley out of balance.

This is what I would do:

Ask your friend to measure the crankshaft end where the pulley go.

Then, ask him to make an insert (or sleeve if you will).

He will first need to machine the inside of the new pulley to make room for the sleeve, it should be a very tight fit.

Then, he will insert the sleeve into the pulley (weld it if needed).

Sounds like something very hard to do, but it is actually very simple.
 

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Shimming it with a sleeve of the same thickness all the way around wouldn't cause it to go out of balance. Leaving a large gap between the end of the wrapped shim or overlapping the ends would though.

Wasn't even thinking about his friend with the machining tools. That's practically the same as shimming it, but with precise machining to eliminate the chance of it going wrong. Think that's going to be the winner.
 
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Shimming it with a sleeve of the same thickness all the way around wouldn't cause it to go out of balance. Leaving a large gap between the end of the wrapped shim or overlapping the ends would though.

Wasn't even thinking about his friend with the machining tools. That's practically the same as shimming it, but with precise machining to eliminate the chance of it going wrong. Think that's going to be the winner.
Do you really believe it is so loose that you can "shim" all way around?

Shimming vs sleeve is not even close.

With a properly made sleeve you are doing a bulletproof job.
 

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A solid sleeve is better. The shimming I was referring to would be a sleeve with a cut through it.

Since OP has a buddy to machine him one, a solid sleeve would be his best option. Others in the same situation may not have that option and shimming it, while not a permanent fix (will need to be re-done every time pulley is removed), will get them back on the road.

Haven't seen any pics or measurements to know what would fit, but feeler gauge comes in some mighty thin pieces, so surely something could work to shim it in a full circle.
 

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Sleeving is good, but expensive (if you have to pay for labor), shimming that close a tolerance will not throw it out of balance or out of alignment - we're talking a quarter of a millimeter, half mm at most - the tolerances on that composite pulley is likely greater.

Do NOT use feeler gauge steel, that stuff is hardened - ideally you want to use annealed stainless shim (pliable, ferrous and rust resistant).
If full sleeve shim does not fit, 'triple leaf' can be cut to fit over the end of the crank.
 

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Not sure how you could machine something to fit the crankshaft tightly, without also removing/machining the crankshaft snout. Remember, the pulley is a TAPERED fit. This is why shimming is the quickest, workable solution.

The feeler gauges we use at work must be poor quality, because they do deform after use and are no longer accurate (used to set valve clearances). I thought aluminum would be too soft, but the thin feeler gauge steel is harder but bendable.

Good catch on the decoupler pulley on the alternator. If that were locked, I suppose it could cause rotational shocks during shifting and contribute to the dampener loosening.
 

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Huh, I did not realize the TAPER.
If that is the case, then have a few thou machined off the back (engine side) of the dampner to allow the pulley to cone together tighter.

But, I don't think my 2002 was a taper. I think IIRC it was just close tolerance. I needed the Chrysler puller kit from AutoZona, that and their flat serpentine belt tensioner tool set. I love that "Loan a Tool to a tool" program.
 

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Huh, I did not realize the TAPER.
If that is the case, then have a few thou machined off the back (engine side) of the dampner to allow the pulley to cone together tighter.

But, I don't think my 2002 was a taper. I think IIRC it was just close tolerance. I needed the Chrysler puller kit from AutoZona, that and their flat serpentine belt tensioner tool set. I love that "Loan a Tool to a tool" program.
Correct, if tapered, then no puller needed.

But if in fact tapered, then fix would be really easy. I might not even be anything wrong with it.
 

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Huh, I did not realize the TAPER.

If that is the case, then have a few thou machined off the back (engine side) of the dampner to allow the pulley to cone together tighter.
there must be some taper (it's possible the slight taper is on the pulley vs. the crank) - you can put the edge of the damper pulley on the crankshaft before you start working the nut on the special tool, IIRC.

That idea may sound good, but if the pulley is slid further on the crank, the belt alignment will be out...
 

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Finally got the time to post some pics. As you can see, the pulley spun enough to wear the inside mating surface where it meets the crank nose shoulder, and the shoulder as well. It appears to be of uniform depth so I'm hopeful I still have a perpendicular mating surface throughout the circumference. The wear on the balancer is 0.050" in depth, and the wear on the shoulder is more of an optical illusion because it is nearly impossible to feel. The balancer itself is not tapered, the opening measures 0.860" front and back sides. The crank nose is definitely slightly tapered, measuring 0.862" at the shoulder and 0.855" toward the end, and a bit smaller right at the end but I believe that's because it's worn down from the balancer riding on it at an angle as was how I found it.

As I stated previoulsy, I can slide a new balancer on all the way (feels like all the way but there could be a few thousandths left to go) to the shoulder. As I hold it tight against the shoulder and attempt to rock it back and forth, there is no movement. If I don't hold it tightly, I can get maybe 0.010" worth of movement between the nose and the outside edge of the balancer.

Because of the aforementioned play, I think it best to pin the crank. I do like the simplicity of the tack weld option, but I know the heat generated from the weld will force the balancer off perpendicular to the crank because there would be no way to hold it firmly in place to make the weld........the washer on the hold down bolt completely covers the area that needs to be tack welded. With a crank pinning jigg that my neighbor is going to machine for me, I can tighten the balancer firmly against the crank nose shoulder and then precisely drill two offsetting holes (to maintain balance) for the pins. Then it's all about removing the jigg, driving in the two pins, followed by torquing down a new bolt with washer to hold the balancer and never have this problem again. And even though it's not leaking now, I will be replacing the front main seal.

Because only one surface (the crank nose) is tapered, and not both, I do not believe that a shim would exact the correct repair. I could see it working if both surfaces were tapered, but not just the one. I do sincerely thank everyone for all of the great input........you guys are much appreciated. Wish me success!

I will post some pics of the jigg (once made up) and steps/details of the repair.
 
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