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Admins - after 27, 430 views maybe make this a sticky?
After five years and only 40 posts 41 now, and almost half of those are yours. I don't feel it needs to be a sticky, especially that this thread is easy to find if searched for. Many views could be from search engines and not from an actual person.

Good information here but, you don't want to get this forum crowded of stickies, my opinion only.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Well, the problem has resurfaced and even though I am showing the results page of the WiTECH to the dealership, they say they can't recreate the problem (Sigh). I will take it in the next time it does it again, with it not working, to show the tech the problem. For some reason, they refuse to change out the TIPM since they haven't directly "seen" the issue.
 

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Similar situation and looking for guidance. 2017 Grand Caravan SXT.

Front blower motor turns on and off while in operation. Rear blower is fine and all other functions on the heater/ac control switch work fine. Sometimes it's off more than on and of course, the opposite.

I did replace the fan speed resistor which didn't help.

I also did a hard reset on the TPIM by disconnecting the battery and having the positive and negative battery cables touch for an hour. At first it seemed much better but now I it's back to being funky. I may take the TIPM out and make sure all is properly connected underneath.

I also confirmed that relay # K9 (labeled front HVAC) clicks on and off in unison with the blower not working. It only affects the blower, everything else stays working.

I don't mind buying a rebuilt TIPM or even the dashboard control unit but am looking for opinions on what would be a logical next step.

Thank you
 

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When you say turns off/on you meant stop running or stop blowing air?

If still running but stop blowing air, it might be a clogged cabin filter or low on freon.

To check, while on the road and blower stop "blowing", turn AC off but keep blower on. If it starts blowing after a couple of minutes, then check the filter and freon charge.
 

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When you say turns off/on you meant stop running or stop blowing air?

If still running but stop blowing air, it might be a clogged cabin filter or low on freon.

To check, while on the road and blower stop "blowing", turn AC off but keep blower on. If it starts blowing after a couple of minutes, then check the filter and freon charge.
The motor stops blowing but everything else remains on.

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Discussion Starter #46
Similar situation and looking for guidance. 2017 Grand Caravan SXT.

Front blower motor turns on and off while in operation. Rear blower is fine and all other functions on the heater/ac control switch work fine. Sometimes it's off more than on and of course, the opposite.

I did replace the fan speed resistor which didn't help.

I also did a hard reset on the TPIM by disconnecting the battery and having the positive and negative battery cables touch for an hour. At first it seemed much better but now I it's back to being funky. I may take the TIPM out and make sure all is properly connected underneath.

I also confirmed that relay # K9 (labeled front HVAC) clicks on and off in unison with the blower not working. It only affects the blower, everything else stays working.

I don't mind buying a rebuilt TIPM or even the dashboard control unit but am looking for opinions on what would be a logical next step.

Thank you
Have you tried running the front blower at 1/2 or 3/4 speed? I've found that mine will not trip the circuit breaker in the TIPM unless I am running the front blower at high speed and sitting in stop and go traffic. The stop and go traffic generates more under-hood heat and this is causing the circuit breaker to thermal trip. The van with this issue has been into the dealership 5 times for this issue (complete with screen captures from the WiTECH) and yet they will not replace the TIPM. They replaced the blower motor, but that was a temporary fix and mostly due to winter time conditions (low under-hood heat buildup).

I have also avoided the problem when sitting at extended idle by opening the hood and letting the excess heat out. Not always practical, but a solution for a minimally designed motor protection circuit that is a problem for some of us.

If you look at the number of views of this thread, it is evident that you and I are not the only ones that are having this issue.
 

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Have you tried running the front blower at 1/2 or 3/4 speed? I've found that mine will not trip the circuit breaker in the TIPM unless I am running the front blower at high speed and sitting in stop and go traffic. The stop and go traffic generates more under-hood heat and this is causing the circuit breaker to thermal trip. The van with this issue has been into the dealership 5 times for this issue (complete with screen captures from the WiTECH) and yet they will not replace the TIPM. They replaced the blower motor, but that was a temporary fix and mostly due to winter time conditions (low under-hood heat buildup).

I have also avoided the problem when sitting at extended idle by opening the hood and letting the excess heat out. Not always practical, but a solution for a minimally designed motor protection circuit that is a problem for some of us.

If you look at the number of views of this thread, it is evident that you and I are not the only ones that are having this issue.
Thank you for the reply.

Running at different fan speeds doesn't seem to matter. It has been relatively hot here and the fuses and relays inside the TIPM are all hot to the touch.

Now that you brought it up, I do remember the other day that I had the hood open and TIPM cover off and it didn't act up.

Do you know where that circuit breaker is located or is it an internal component inside the motherboard of the TIPM?

There is the 40 amp fuse which is good and I've swapped relays just to check/test as well. The relay opens and closes in unison with the blower operating. I'm guessing that there is a circuit breaker somewhere that powers the coil side of the relay?

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I have a 2008 Chrysler T&C and have been battling / living with this issue for two years. Had the ignition and key fobs replaced by the dealership under the recall. Have had random intermittent issues with the front blower stopping and restarting in random intervals or sometimes only restarting with an ignition restart. I have replaced the blower and motor as well as the resistor. Still have the same issue. Happens at any fan speed - happens in any temperature. It is definitely just some issue with the front blower as it happens with heat or A/C. The back blower never has issues and cold A/C air or hot heater air will drift out of the vents at highway speed but the blower just quits then sometimes restarts immediately, sometimes stays off for varying amounts of time, and sometimes goes on and off a few times, and sometimes just remains off until the ignition is restarted. It can even occur without the engine on. It is completely random. I have searched for answers across the internet and have checked for broken wires in the driver door harness, under both side kickplates, checked the ground connection on the battery, checked fuses, tapped on the blower motor, and even tried to see if wiggling the Fob in the ignition might help. Nothing consistently helps. Sometimes wiggling the Fob or banging on the dashboard seems to help but believe this is completely coincidental as it also sometimes restarts without any action. I’m at a loss and feel my van is possessed and just playing games with me. Wish I could find a definitive answer. Dealership simply offers to progressively replace parts at high cost until I have a new van. I’ve chosen not to go this route and simply endure my random intermittent and unexplained loss of blower function occasionally searching for answers again on the internet. Sure wish someone could figure it out.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
Well, you are not alone. In my case, I have proven the TIPM to be the source of the issue, but for now the dealership will not change out the TIPM. The TIPM houses a circuit breaker that trips because it is overheating due to high ambient temperatures and high under hood temperatures. Using WiTECH, I have printed out the fault screens and also used the Tech Connect troubleshooting charts that prove the TIPM is the issue - but still no luck.

The dealership will only address the issue if they can repeat it in the service bay. Well, since the service bay is not the same as driving in stop and go summertime traffic in the city, they can not duplicate the problem in the 20 minutes they allow for their testing. The van in question has been into the shop five times for this issue, and every time the answer is "can not duplicate".

In my opinion, it's a design flaw in at least three ways.

1. The blower motor TIPM circuit breaker is sized at the minimum level to protect the motor and the wires leading to the blower motor. So if anything increases the amp draw (motor bearings going bad, air flow restricted causing heating of the blower motor, etc.) the circuit breaker will trip - doing it's job. However, if the circuit is at the minimum level when new, one can safely assume that as the system ages the tolerances will change. In my case, the evaporator is clear of restrictions and the blower motor was changed out less than 2 years ago.

2. The TIPM is located on the driver's side of the van close to the exhaust manifold - and all the heat coming from within the engine compartment.. Compounding this issue, the TIPM is at the top of the engine bay, close to the hood insulation and is out of the airflow when the vehicle is stopped in traffic. This adds to the temperature load on the blower motor circuit breaker (circuit breakers typically work by "tripping" due to heat build up in the circuit breaker protection circuit itself). For those so inclined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_breaker

3. The evaporator draws outside air through the vents under the hood (at the base of the windshield). As many of you know, this area can hold debris. Since this air inlet has minimal screening to prevent debris from entering into the evaporator core, over time the evaporator core can become clogged with small bits of "stuff" (leaves, cottonwood blooms, grass clipping, etc - anything small that can enter the vents but be caught by the small spaces in the evaporator core itself) This can restrict airflow to the blower motor and cause the motor to draw excessive amps. Even those that use "recirc" are susceptible to this as "fresh air" is always being drawn in, regardless of the setting (small amount, but still being drawn in).

So, how to prevent the circuit breaker from tripping? Run the blower motor at lower amp draw settings (not max speed). When idling for extended periods open the hood (I've done this with great results - have run this for many hours and the TIPM does not overheat and the circuit breaker doesn't trip). Make sure the vents under the hood (inlets to the evaporator) are clear of debris (and it doesn't hurt to make sure your HVAC filter isn't clogged up either - if you have one). Short of replacing the circuit breaker in the TIPM or the TIPM itself, these are about all the things I can think of that help to resolve this issue.
 

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Something to think about:

Easy.

1.- If your vehicle is equiped with a cabin air filter, replace it.
2.- Sysyem might be low in refrigetant.
3.- If no cabin filter, evaporator might be dirty.

Explanation:

A dirty air filter or evaporator causes the evaporator to freeze (evaporator clogged with ice) reducing or stoping air flow. When you turn AC off, ice melts and air will start flowing again. Cycle starts again.

Low refrigetant will also cause the evaporator to freeze.
 

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Well, you are not alone. In my case, I have proven the TIPM to be the source of the issue, but for now the dealership will not change out the TIPM. The TIPM houses a circuit breaker that trips because it is overheating due to high ambient temperatures and high under hood temperatures. Using WiTECH, I have printed out the fault screens and also used the Tech Connect troubleshooting charts that prove the TIPM is the issue - but still no luck.

The dealership will only address the issue if they can repeat it in the service bay. Well, since the service bay is not the same as driving in stop and go summertime traffic in the city, they can not duplicate the problem in the 20 minutes they allow for their testing. The van in question has been into the shop five times for this issue, and every time the answer is "can not duplicate".

In my opinion, it's a design flaw in at least three ways.

1. The blower motor TIPM circuit breaker is sized at the minimum level to protect the motor and the wires leading to the blower motor. So if anything increases the amp draw (motor bearings going bad, air flow restricted causing heating of the blower motor, etc.) the circuit breaker will trip - doing it's job. However, if the circuit is at the minimum level when new, one can safely assume that as the system ages the tolerances will change. In my case, the evaporator is clear of restrictions and the blower motor was changed out less than 2 years ago.

2. The TIPM is located on the driver's side of the van close to the exhaust manifold - and all the heat coming from within the engine compartment.. Compounding this issue, the TIPM is at the top of the engine bay, close to the hood insulation and is out of the airflow when the vehicle is stopped in traffic. This adds to the temperature load on the blower motor circuit breaker (circuit breakers typically work by "tripping" due to heat build up in the circuit breaker protection circuit itself). For those so inclined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_breaker

3. The evaporator draws outside air through the vents under the hood (at the base of the windshield). As many of you know, this area can hold debris. Since this air inlet has minimal screening to prevent debris from entering into the evaporator core, over time the evaporator core can become clogged with small bits of "stuff" (leaves, cottonwood blooms, grass clipping, etc - anything small that can enter the vents but be caught by the small spaces in the evaporator core itself) This can restrict airflow to the blower motor and cause the motor to draw excessive amps. Even those that use "recirc" are susceptible to this as "fresh air" is always being drawn in, regardless of the setting (small amount, but still being drawn in).

So, how to prevent the circuit breaker from tripping? Run the blower motor at lower amp draw settings (not max speed). When idling for extended periods open the hood (I've done this with great results - have run this for many hours and the TIPM does not overheat and the circuit breaker doesn't trip). Make sure the vents under the hood (inlets to the evaporator) are clear of debris (and it doesn't hurt to make sure your HVAC filter isn't clogged up either - if you have one). Short of replacing the circuit breaker in the TIPM or the TIPM itself, these are about all the things I can think of that help to resolve this issue.
This makes the most sense of anything I have heard. Thanks for the great explanation and helping educate me on what’s going on with my Chrysler.
 

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Well,

When working properly, the front HVAC relay activates then the front blower comes on. When it dies, the relay is no longer energized.

There is a 40 amp fuse for the front HVAC which is good.

I'm not near the car but either 30 or 87 on the relay go dead when I pull it the fuse. It makes me question if there is a circuit breaker causing this.

If I put a jumper wire across 30 & 87 the system works flawlessly.

I need to figure out what tells the relay to energize and from there I may find the problem.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #53 (Edited)
Well,

When working properly, the front HVAC relay activates then the front blower comes on. When it dies, the relay is no longer energized.

There is a 40 amp fuse for the front HVAC which is good.

I'm not near the car but either 30 or 87 on the relay go dead when I pull it the fuse. It makes me question if there is a circuit breaker causing this.

If I put a jumper wire across 30 & 87 the system works flawlessly.

I need to figure out what tells the relay to energize and from there I may find the problem.

Sent from my LG-H872 using Tapatalk
So, have you determined that you issue is heat related? The issue I am describing is absolutely heat related (summertime, not winter) and is not an intermittent issue, but can be repeated based on under-hood temperatures and heat buildup.

The HVAC front blower works fine until the under-hood temperature buildup causes the TIPM to trip the relay off. This is confirmed by letting the vehicle run with the hood open and the AC on Max setting. In the case I am describing, the front blower will not trip if the hood is open, regardless of the outside temperature - even with the front blower running at the Max setting. With the hood shut, the protection circuit "sees" excessive heat (which it assumes is caused by current draw) and shuts off the relay to the front blower. After a sufficient amount of "cooling" time, the relay can be re-energized and the front blower will operate again.

I have run the blower at lower speeds all day with the hood shut and had no issues. It's only at the Max setting, with the hood shut, does the heat buildup cause this symptom.

The second reason this is the TIPM is because this issue never occurs in the winter, regardless of the front blower setting. This indicates that the motor is not the source of the problem (fairly new motor) and in this situation it is caused by underhood heat, not heat within the HVAC ducting itself. The outside cool air keeps the engine bay temperature at a decent level so the TIPM doesn't "react" to the Max setting on the front blower.

Also, "circuit breaker" is a term more than a physical device (meaning like a circuit breaker in your home panel). There are many types of circuit breakers - thermal, thermal magnetic, solid state, etc. The solid state units typically use a current transformer (CT) to monitor current draw and compare the draw to a set value to determine if the load is in an overloaded / overheated state. This is done with thermal modeling. The relay you are describing is most likely an interposing relay (these are used so the monitoring circuit does not have to deal with all the power - hence less expensive to manufacture the control circuit). That's why you see a loss of power when the relay de-energizes (it's the interposing relay) being controlled by a separate control circuit. You can bypass the control circuit, and the internal protection by "jumping' out the relay, just like you did.

However, the whole purpose of the circuit breaker is to protect the wiring and prevent the wire from overheating / melting and causing a fire. I do not recommend jumping out the relay control circuit.
 

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Put a bag of ice cubes on the TIPM. :)
 

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I have the same problems today, going from Montreal to Toronto (5-6 hours drive). Its stopped exactly after 4 hours of drive. I opened the fuse box cover and it's been running fine since. (Don't do it if it's raining or going to rain soon)
 

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So, have you determined that you issue is heat related? The issue I am describing is absolutely heat related (summertime, not winter) and is not an intermittent issue, but can be repeated based on under-hood temperatures and heat buildup.

The HVAC front blower works fine until the under-hood temperature buildup causes the TIPM to trip the relay off. This is confirmed by letting the vehicle run with the hood open and the AC on Max setting. In the case I am describing, the front blower will not trip if the hood is open, regardless of the outside temperature - even with the front blower running at the Max setting. With the hood shut, the protection circuit "sees" excessive heat (which it assumes is caused by current draw) and shuts off the relay to the front blower. After a sufficient amount of "cooling" time, the relay can be re-energized and the front blower will operate again.

I have run the blower at lower speeds all day with the hood shut and had no issues. It's only at the Max setting, with the hood shut, does the heat buildup cause this symptom.

The second reason this is the TIPM is because this issue never occurs in the winter, regardless of the front blower setting. This indicates that the motor is not the source of the problem (fairly new motor) and in this situation it is caused by underhood heat, not heat within the HVAC ducting itself. The outside cool air keeps the engine bay temperature at a decent level so the TIPM doesn't "react" to the Max setting on the front blower.

Also, "circuit breaker" is a term more than a physical device (meaning like a circuit breaker in your home panel). There are many types of circuit breakers - thermal, thermal magnetic, solid state, etc. The solid state units typically use a current transformer (CT) to monitor current draw and compare the draw to a set value to determine if the load is in an overloaded / overheated state. This is done with thermal modeling. The relay you are describing is most likely an interposing relay (these are used so the monitoring circuit does not have to deal with all the power - hence less expensive to manufacture the control circuit). That's why you see a loss of power when the relay de-energizes (it's the interposing relay) being controlled by a separate control circuit. You can bypass the control circuit, and the internal protection by "jumping' out the relay, just like you did.

However, the whole purpose of the circuit breaker is to protect the wiring and prevent the wire from overheating / melting and causing a fire. I do not recommend jumping out the relay control circuit.
That’s a great explanation on the different relays. Thank you!

However, even by jumping out the relay the circuit is protected by the 40 amp fuse.

It seems as if the latching circuit of the relay is protected by a circuit breaker. The pass through power is protected by the fuse.


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A tap on the bottom of the motor housing, with a rubber mallet, kept my blower motor operational for several weeks, until I replaced it.
 

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yes my 2014 Chrysler town and country the blower will not come on until the van is driving for 10 minutes then it comes on and works fine the new shut off and it does it all over again I’ve replaced the fan and the temperature resistor
 

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I have a 2010 VW Routan that i bought a few months ago with 120k on the ODO, a re-branded version of the Caravan / Town & Country. Anyway, I have been having the same issue that has been discussed here:
- Front AC blower randomly not turning on
- Frequently works again upon restart
- Rear AC works perfectly
.

From what I read here, it may have something to do with the TIPM (fuse block in engine bay) overheating. Has anybody tried improving air flow to that area? Finally, thanks to everyone who contributed, because it is the most helpful thing I've found online.
 
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