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3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
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824 Posts
I have 235/45/R18's on +25mm offset wheels, no clearance issues.
 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
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824 Posts

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i've got a question that you might know the answer to, i haven't really been able to find a solid answer for this

what's the widest and largest diameter wheel i can fit before it starts rubbing without any lift or spacers?
This is your max without major rubbing/ tire chew, assuming stock 6.5" wheels.

If you have say Intrepid 7" wide wheels, this changes
60926
 

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3rd gen > all others
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I figured 30's were possible! With my rim choice I can't do it, too much negative offset running spacers to clear the calipers.

I need to do a front subframe drop/drivetrain drop to get rid of some CV shaft vibration. When I do that I'd like to scootch the front subframe forward a little, to make a little more room during turns for the front wheelhouse at the firewall/rockers. I can always trim the plastic bumper. May have to make a steering shaft extender though. Then I can use the aluminum strut spacers I have for even more lift.
 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
Joined
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824 Posts
I figured 30's were possible! With my rim choice I can't do it, too much negative offset running spacers to clear the calipers.

I need to do a front subframe drop/drivetrain drop to get rid of some CV shaft vibration. When I do that I'd like to scootch the front subframe forward a little, to make a little more room during turns for the front wheelhouse at the firewall/rockers. I can always trim the plastic bumper. May have to make a steering shaft extender though. Then I can use the aluminum strut spacers I have for even more lift.
The transmission mounts and engine mount are bushing type. You could knock/cut the steel center of the bushing out of the rubber, cut some of the rubber out of the way, mount the steel center 1-2 inches higher/forward, and refill the bushing with low shore hardness polyurethane or silicone. The bushings are attached to the engine/transmission, and they hang off of the chassis through the center bolt. Puting the center bolt hole higher in the bushings will result in a drivetrain that sits lower in the subframe.
You should be able to move the engine and transmission 1-2" lower and 1-2inches forward in the subframe. IIRC, all 4 are oriented longitudinally with the center bolt passing transversely.


60968



The subframe remounting will likely be more tedious, but could be more beneficial. The roll center of the front suspension will drastically increase as the lower control arm angle increases with lifting. The way the suspension cambers when rolling around a turn is also modified by changing the lower control arm angle. The rear roll center is easier to control as it is determined by the pitman arm mounting. I don't know enough about it to tell you how big a difference it will make, but I'd assume that by lifting or lowering 2 inches as we've done, we've thrown these characteristics far beyond optimal.

60969
 

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I remember what you said about the 3rd gen trans mount being a little lower than the 4th gen, so figured I'd pick one up at the junkyard next visit. The way the accessibility van companies lift these vans, they drop the front crossmember and drivetrain with round aluminum spacers/pucks an inch long. Then they have drilled a new hole for the transmission mount hanger (long bolt) lower in the frame, as low as they can to get the inch there. I may try a combination of tricks to lower that transmission mount, so that I don't have to drill through the frame. It doesn't leave enough material around the new hole for my liking. I figured even making a flat steel plate to bolt to the transmission, and then to the mount would be stronger.

I already collected several 1" long spacers and bolts for the engine mounts. I have some old mounts that I could cut the aluminum from to make more spacers. The rear will be dropped with the subframe. I know if I move the subframe forward caster will change, so keeping that in mind. Maybe I won't move it. It's just kinda bragging rights if I can run 30's LOL.
 

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I got a 3rd gen transmission mount today, with the shift cable bracket in case I need it. It was a white '96 Plymouth Grand Voyager handicap accessible van, so I got the front upper strut spacers too. 2 cars down the row was a Pacifica with brand new struts!! So yup, grabbed those and put the strut spacers on them. Now I have enough stuff to lift another van. I also got a steel wheel with a 30" tire on it, to swap onto a rim and see how it will fit/clear things.

The transmission mount body is steel instead of aluminum. Makes it easier to cut and weld if I have to modify it. (y)
 
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3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
Joined
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824 Posts
I got a 3rd gen transmission mount today, with the shift cable bracket in case I need it. It was a white '96 Plymouth Grand Voyager handicap accessible van, so I got the front upper strut spacers too. 2 cars down the row was a Pacifica with brand new struts!! So yup, grabbed those and put the strut spacers on them. Now I have enough stuff to lift another van. I also got a steel wheel with a 30" tire on it, to swap onto a rim and see how it will fit/clear things.

The transmission mount body is steel instead of aluminum. Makes it easier to cut and weld if I have to modify it. (y)
I hadn't thought of that. The steel half of the mount could just be redrilled with hole for the center bolt offset forward and lower.

That along with pouring polyurethane into the aluminum with center of the bushing offset would give you a lot of control over where the drivetrain is situated in the engine compartment.


60983
 
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61020


This just drove by. Shame that the CVs on Mopars cannot handle angle without CV shake. Its engine and subframe was at stock height completely exposed (hence the front splitter/chin)

The sienna however seemed to have zero subframe droppage. I guess it’s CVs are much more content to run with sharp angle.
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I only get CV shake accelerating from a dead stop or a slow roll up to around 30mph. The rest of my vibration this summer was tires (which has gone away now with my winter wheels). I theorize it's because of the angle the engine/drivetrain is in under that much torque, and once at speed the engine settles into it's "cruising" location and is smooth. I do have all new mounts to put in, so maybe that's all I need to fix the shudder.

I still want to add subframe spacers though, to take some of the angle out of the joints. It will enable me to run a little thicker strut spacer for more lift, bigger tires and lower the front center of gravity a little.

At least Siennas have an off-road lift kit available for them. They do lower the subframes a little, while adding longer rear springs and struts or strut spacers. We have to get creative and customize ours, but that's the challenge and fun of it.
 
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