I would check that one out in a hurry. Do you have an Owner Manual? It will tell you in there. If not, check with the Chrysler Dealership. Give them your VIN# to make sure.

The bulletin on ATF+4 http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/neontsbs/2005/21-010-06.pdf

 

Only reference I have on that is Chilton's manuals. They say:

Automatics until 1995 - Dexron II
Automatics 1996-1999 - ATF+3
Automatics 2000 and later ATF+4

I have seen discussions saying that ATF+4 should be used on some earlier applications (at least replacing the ATF+3 years), but someone with info more specific to the 1996 should come along shortly.

I might at least ask the shop guys to see the reference they used.

 

My manual says ATF+ preferred

From the service bulletin below:

SUBJECT:
Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type MS9602)

(long list of models ensues then then I find mine in the list)

1996 - 2000 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager

(the bulletin concludes)
ATF+4® is recommended for all vehicles equipped with Chrysler
Group automatic transmissions EXCEPT FOR THOSE NOTED ABOVE.
NOTE: ATF+4® must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with
ATF+4®. DO NOT USE ANY OTHER FLUID.

(they must mean ATF+4 instead of ATF+3)

I will check the vin # with Chrysler next

 

The 3 speed is based off of the old torqueflight trans so it should be more tolerable with the dextron. Check with a dealer service department tomorrow.

 

Could be. I pulled this from another forum:

From Swooton

I can give you a little background. I am going to make an assumption that based upon the fact that you have a 3.0 liter engine you also have a 3 speed automatic not the 4 speed overdrive unit.
Chysler over the years has made many changes as to the recommended fluid for their transaxles. In all models the current recommendation is ATF+4 except in caravan/voyager/town and country models which they recommend ATF+3 because it affects the shift quality. I personally never noticed any difference. As far as the three speed which I believe your van has, it was originally designed to use regular ATF DexronII. Chrysler never made any significant changes to that transaxle to "require" ATF+3 or above. It was just easier for Chrsler and thier dealers to stock just one fluid and put it in everything. I know because I was a dealer technician when the change came through. We started putting ATF+3 in every vehicle that came in, even the ones that came with DexronII from the factory.
In reality you can use Dexron, +3 or +4. Personally I'd put Dexron if it's a 3 speed and +3 if its an overdrive unit.

 

You can use Dextron III in this transmissions(41te or old name A670 torqueflite) with absolutely no problems. It would be of no benefit to put in ATF+ other than costing you more. Your local transmission shop has done you no harm, in fact he just saved you some money. The only reason Chrysler has said this on your dipstick is to cut down on inventory and charge you the consumer more money.

 

1996 caravan 3.0 3spd tranny fluid type?

Hi there...

I am in total agreement with transman. The transmission shop that serviced your trans did you absolutely no harm by using Dexron in your van,....he just saved you some money. ATF +4 IS NOT NEEDED IN A 670 transaxle.

been buliding trannys for over 30 years and remember when these first came out.

 

Problem is I never asked them to save me a couple of bucks by putting in anything not specified in the manual or on the dipstick. I called them and they said they would flush the Dexron III/Mercon out and fill with ATF+4. Which by the way is what they should have put in there in the first place because that's whats specified everywhere I have looked for it to use. Just dropped it off a while ago.

Why would the maker put a label on the dipstick saying "MOPAR ATF" if they didn't mean it? (Oh right, to charge me more money, sorry). I mean, would anyone put ATF+4 in a Chevy Silverado? So why would anyone use Dexron III/Mercon in a 1996 Dodge? Crazy stuff.

Would putting ATF+4 in a 1996 31TH 3-speed Dodge Caravan with a 3.0L engine harm the transmission? If it did I would have to start drinking again I'm afraid, because the world has turned upside down.

 

Mopar ATF is a generic term.Back then,all there was,was Dexron and +3.Like saying use Mopar wiper fluid,Mopar brake fluid,Mopar coolant,within reason its what the OEMs say to protect their market.No law saying you have to use GM,Ford,Mopar fluids,but you just need to use proper fluids.

 

But there are TON'S of posts sayin' DON"T use ANYTHING but ATF+4 in there or POW! there goes you're tranny. WAY more so than the ones that say it's okay.

I'm going to "err" the side of caution and use ATF+4.

I mean I do get it sort of, It's like say, on my Fender Telecaster electric guitar I don't use Fender brand strings and I'm free to use whatever I want that's a good string. But I don't "believe" that this Dexron III/Mercon stuff is the same as ATF+4.

 

But I bet you won't pour anything but ATF+4 into your 2002 Caravan SE either.

 

just an interesting note to add to this thread.
There is no such thing a Dexron II or III anymore, there are fluids that meet that spec, but no longer is there a Dexron II or III. It has been superseded to Dexron VI.

The ATF+3/4 were designed to REDUCE shudder in the trans, so the shop saying that using it will cause shudder is full of chit.

there are additives that can be added to the older spec fluids to bring them up to ATF+4 spec.

 

Wow, My invoice says "Dexron III/Mercon" right on it.

I'm starting to think I know more about tranny fluid than the average guy about now. Thanks folks.

 

Maybe the transmission shop has learned something too. Sounds like they didn't give you much arguement. :thumb:
If you checked with Chrysler, what did they have to say?

 

I have not checked with Chrysler. I should. I doubt they would endorse any other product other than Mopar though.

I can't really say that the shop was out to do anything bad either. This is a small college town (20,000) with only two dedicated transmission places in it. Any business around here that is a shady dealer would not last for long before the word got out I bet.

The shop was quick to make things right, (I guess the fix is free of charge :ask_wsign will find out tomorrow) either because they want to keep a customer or they thought they were "caught". I hope it was the former.

 

You're tenacious. :thumb:

 

All's well that ends well. Van picked up with old transmission flushed out and 9.50 quarts of ATF+4 put in no charge. :ThumbsUp:

Moral of the story?

Make sure you know exactly what you want done and what fluids you want it done with. This whole episode is partly my fault and I accept some of the responsibility for not saying up front what fluid I wanted.

I'm a picky mother I guess.

Van3.0

:beerchug:

 

Fluid Change

What about the uninformed people that go in for a fluid change, they drive away depending on the tranny shop to do it right. In your case if you were uninformed about it and continued to drive with the Dextron 111/Mercon would it really have caused any problems? A lot of people depend on these tranny shops because they are more convenient for service and dread the thought of taking it to the dealer because its always more expensive, especially when they have to borrow the money from the bank to get er done. I am not trying to knock the dealer but, they charged me $500.00 to change a timing belt and I found that to be quit expensive since they were already replacing their transmission which the park pin fell out at 65mph, and they were charging me $3000.00 for that. No wonder people don't want to go to the dealers. So they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

blah blah blah... 9.5 qts bs the whole system with zero fluid in the converter is 8. there is no way possible to completely drain the whole system even when pulling the converter unless you drill a hole in the housing.

dexron will NOT cause damage to the transmission.. even the 3speed. gee, the interal working of the 3speed is EXACTLY the same as a 904/727. and golly those transmissions used Dexron for a gazillion years.

BTW if you really knew the facts behind 7176 and it's 'improved' formula you wouldn't be talking out of your butt as much.

park pin fell out... there aint no such thing. your differential pin came out and obliterated the case. in MOST situations of this, the cause is getting stuck and spinning the snot out of one wheel. it may not blow immediately but at some point you can expect it.

 

As far as the shudder comment goes, I have run nothing but ATF+3 (and now +4) in my Voyager and it has never once exhibited any kind of sign of torque converter shudder. That's crap.

Though Dexron in a 3 speed probably would be fine given the transmission's history, I never decided to take the chance. I wouldn't go near Dexron with a 4 speed, though. As far as the OP's problem goes... if you're not comfortable with the Dexron in there, then you should flush it. You can't get all the Dexron out by dropping the pan again.

 

yep all the hype. did you know that the 3speed uses the EXACT same converter as the 4speed with 3.0 engine (3.3 and 3.8 is bigger in diameter). Did you know that the frictions between the 3speed and overdrive have the EXACT same material on the surfaces.

Hmmm I'm still trying to wonder why I MUST use ATF+4? is there anyone out there that is REALLY qualified to convince me otherwise. I'm still confident that my choice of fluid is working fine. Sure if you don't want to use any other fluid that fine, but don't be so sure. Heck, if the +4 is the BEST fluid and keeps the transmission working right.. how come they still fail....Hmm... seems that the fluid isn't the issue now is it?

 

Hmmm I'm still trying to wonder why I MUST use ATF+4? is there anyone out there that is REALLY qualified to convince me otherwise.

I see that you're banned, so you won't be replying, but my question is why *wouldn't* you use ATF+4 in a vehicle that specifies it? If the extra couple of bucks per quart put you in the poor house, perhaps a monthly bus pass would be a better mode of transportation.

As for ATF+4's specs, I've read them and I'm confident that it is a superior fluid to ATF+3, and it seems pretty clear to me why using Dexron is a risk I don't want to take.

I'm still confident that my choice of fluid is working fine. Sure if you don't want to use any other fluid that fine, but don't be so sure.

I'm pretty sure. ATF+4 is the only fluid going into my transmission.

Heck, if the +4 is the BEST fluid and keeps the transmission working right.. how come they still fail....Hmm... seems that the fluid isn't the issue now is it?

This is some pretty shoddy reasoning. Use of the proper fluid is not, has never been, and never will be a guarantee that the transmission won't fail. However, use of an improper fluid, while not guaranteeing failure, will significantly increase your risk.

To anybody reading this thread, follow Shipo's advice. If your van was spec'd with ATF+3 or ATF+4, use only ATF+4 in your transmission.

 

22dodge, which brand of dexron 3 do you use? Any particular brand better then the other? Also, I've seen castrol import multi-vehicle atf at my local walmart which also says that it's compatible with atf+3, would that be a good alternative to atf+4? Also, what oil change interval do you recommend if using dexron 3?

 

Contrary to 22dodge's assertions, there is no alternative to ATF+4. If you have a 2000 or later 41TE transmission, use ATF+4 (and ONLY ATF+4); accept no substitutes.

 

I actually used Castrol ATF+4 in my 3 speed tranny, even though it calls for ATF+3 (which is not available anymore) and most people say that dexron 3 can be used in the 3 speeds as well. The whole thing cost me under 50 dollars including the filter and rubber gasket. I'll probably do it again just before next winter. I have to say tranny shifts much smoother after the oil change and is somewhat quieter as well. Going with dexron would of saved me around 10 bucks. What's the big deal? At least if something does go wrong, I won't blame myself for skimping on the proper transmission fluid.

 

Well of course ATF+4 is superior to ATF+3, it's synthetic whereas +3 is petrol based. Another thread I started about the "truely dead 1996 voyager" had its transmission rebuilt 4 times. Yes, it was rebuilt by a VERY reputible transmission shop thats been around here for AGES. BUT, the "techs" there also believe Chrysler's can accept dexron. Well go figure, there can't be any other reason the transmission has been fully rebuilt 4 times, I mean I know it wasn't improperly rebuilt or with poor materials because these people really are good at tranny's, pros, I just wouldn't take a chrysler to them. The symptom each time it needed to be rebuilt was slipping, MAJOR slipping, I'm guessing b/c the clutch packs were torn up because of the dexron. I bet if they had filled it with ATF+4 the first time it was rebuilt, it would still be on that first rebuild. [this van has/had the 3.3 with the 41te]

 

Well, 22dodge did say in his posts that chrysler transmissions had touble with slipping and using dexron 3 created torque shudder, which to me means that there will be more wear and tear. But, then he went onto say that he's been using nothing but dexron in all of his vehicles and they have lasted a long time, but he failed to explain why his trannies didn't experience the same problems that others did using dexron? So, in a way he's just contradicting himself. That's why I had asked him specifically if he used different clutch material in the rebuilt trannies or some type of an additive that would allow less slipppage. But he failed to answer that question. So, logically what he was saying didn't make any sense.

 

While I cannot explain his rationale, and now that he's banned we're never likely to find out, however, I find myself wondering if he had some sort of an axe to grind with Chrysler (where it appears he did work at one time in history) and was deliberately trying to mislead folks into killing their transmissions.

 

Basically, my understanding is that some transmissions are configured to grab the cluthes quick, thus dexron 3 works well with those types of transmissions, because it's not that slippery and doesn't hinder their mechanism. However, the chrysler trannies were designed to ease into different gears (partial lockup, low line pressure) and dexron 3 created shudder in those situations, because it didn't allow enough slippage. So, chrysler came up with atf+3/atf+4 fluid which is more slippery then dexron and allows the cluthes to ease into lockup, eliminating shudder and excessive wear.

I would think that atf+4 will not work good in transmissions that are supposed to use dexron 3 because it might actually cause exessive slippage due to it's frictional properties. It would hinder their design of grabbing the gears quickly and cause slippage and more wear. So, it's best to follow manufacturer's recommeded fluid in a particular vehicle.

I also didn't agree with 22dodge's theory about the output line in the tranny should be pumping fluid up the transmission cooler instead of providing flow to upper hose. The few vans I've seen show the fluid being pumped to the upper line of the cooler and then flowing down thru the cooler (thus cooling) to the lower ouput hose and out to the inlet port on the transmission. That's how I've seen them come configured from the factory, and it makes sense. I don't see how hooking them up the opposite way will reduce build up in the cooler. Again it goes against logic and would not serve the purpose of having a cooler which is meant to cool the fluid not heat it up, because the upper part of the radiator is hotter then the lower part, fluid flows downwards as it cools.